General High Freq EM interference issue
Quote from Isabelxxx on November 1, 2024, 11:22 amHi,
I have noticed all your rips, oldest one from 2020, up to now have high EM hum at around 20Khz and 40Khz. I'm posting 3 examples from 2020, 2023 and 2024; but all your rips have the same hum.Volumen brutal {PBTHAL 1982 SPA 1st Chapa Discos HS-35.053} from 2023
As can be seen the same hum is always present. While this kind of hum may be sometimes ignored, the one at 20 khz goes up to 18 khz and -70dbs which is under 16bits amplitude. Really huge. Also any CD-4 (multi-channel encoded) rip will be broken since decoding requires frequencies up to 48Khz, but you have 2 spots with too much hum breaking the encoding. Not sure if you did one of those, since most rips I have seen have been SQ matrix.
While some may argue the hum at 18khz is not audible, well... young people may differ on quiet passages. It's also dangerous for some systems at high levels and anyway it's indicative of something not being right on the electric connections either on the SUT, the tube preamp, etc.
For anyone interested,here is a Izotope RX10 (I suppose it also works on RX11 and latter) De-Hum preset:
http://temp.sh/sWUGn/PBTHAL_20KHZ.xml
Hi,
I have noticed all your rips, oldest one from 2020, up to now have high EM hum at around 20Khz and 40Khz. I'm posting 3 examples from 2020, 2023 and 2024; but all your rips have the same hum.
Volumen brutal {PBTHAL 1982 SPA 1st Chapa Discos HS-35.053} from 2023

As can be seen the same hum is always present. While this kind of hum may be sometimes ignored, the one at 20 khz goes up to 18 khz and -70dbs which is under 16bits amplitude. Really huge. Also any CD-4 (multi-channel encoded) rip will be broken since decoding requires frequencies up to 48Khz, but you have 2 spots with too much hum breaking the encoding. Not sure if you did one of those, since most rips I have seen have been SQ matrix.
While some may argue the hum at 18khz is not audible, well... young people may differ on quiet passages. It's also dangerous for some systems at high levels and anyway it's indicative of something not being right on the electric connections either on the SUT, the tube preamp, etc.
For anyone interested,here is a Izotope RX10 (I suppose it also works on RX11 and latter) De-Hum preset:
http://temp.sh/sWUGn/PBTHAL_20KHZ.xml
Quote from PB on November 1, 2024, 2:54 pmThis has been a known issue for years and noone has ever said they have heard it, probably because it does not really start to rise til 19.5khz. The cause is the wiring/junction box of the tonearm
This has been a known issue for years and noone has ever said they have heard it, probably because it does not really start to rise til 19.5khz. The cause is the wiring/junction box of the tonearm
Quote from Drybonz on November 2, 2024, 4:12 pmI've never heard this hum in years of listening to these rips.Ā I might imagine that I do now that I have read this, but I will put it out of my mind.Ā š
I've never heard this hum in years of listening to these rips.Ā I might imagine that I do now that I have read this, but I will put it out of my mind.Ā š
Quote from Anders on November 2, 2024, 9:20 pmQuote from PB on November 1, 2024, 2:54 pmThis has been a known issue for years and noone has ever said they have heard it, probably because it does not really start to rise til 19.5khz. The cause is the wiring/junction box of the tonearm
So you found out that this was the cause?
I remember that it was brought up before, and as far as I recall you said that you hadn't been able to locate where it came from, but I think I suggested that it was either the Sugarcube or your A/D converter, since the horisontal line at 20 kHz in the spectogram didn't appear until a certain year.
Quote from PB on November 1, 2024, 2:54 pmThis has been a known issue for years and noone has ever said they have heard it, probably because it does not really start to rise til 19.5khz. The cause is the wiring/junction box of the tonearm
So you found out that this was the cause?
I remember that it was brought up before, and as far as I recall you said that you hadn't been able to locate where it came from, but I think I suggested that it was either the Sugarcube or your A/D converter, since the horisontal line at 20 kHz in the spectogram didn't appear until a certain year.
Quote from Isabelxxx on November 3, 2024, 10:15 amMost people can't hear over 14Khz, specially +30s year old, so reports of people not hearing it is not an argument of 'it is not a problem'. Because other people may hear it. The same than HF EM noises by refrigerators, etc. which are really really annoying for some people (specially for those with higher sensory processing sensitivity) but other people don't even hear it.
Also, it's not like "normal" listeners may identify it. Even if you don't directly hear the noise, the same than <20 hz noises distort the signal in real speakers/IEMs, ultrasonic noises do the same. That's one of the reasons people are asked to filter SACD to PCM conversions HF noise, they simply destroy some tweets or add distortion in some devices (quality plays a factor here).
Just saying all this not with the intention "this is terrible", it's obviously not a really huge issue, but I think it should be addressed at some point. Glad to know that you are aware of it at least.
Most people can't hear over 14Khz, specially +30s year old, so reports of people not hearing it is not an argument of 'it is not a problem'. Because other people may hear it. The same than HF EM noises by refrigerators, etc. which are really really annoying for some people (specially for those with higher sensory processing sensitivity) but other people don't even hear it.
Also, it's not like "normal" listeners may identify it. Even if you don't directly hear the noise, the same than <20 hz noises distort the signal in real speakers/IEMs, ultrasonic noises do the same. That's one of the reasons people are asked to filter SACD to PCM conversions HF noise, they simply destroy some tweets or add distortion in some devices (quality plays a factor here).
Just saying all this not with the intention "this is terrible", it's obviously not a really huge issue, but I think it should be addressed at some point. Glad to know that you are aware of it at least.
Quote from Aureoli on November 4, 2024, 2:27 pmCould the presence of this noise potentially cause damage to high-quality speakers or headphones, especially if they are not designed to handle such frequencies? I appreciate the work being done here, and Iām asking out of genuine curiosity, as I am not very knowledgeable about this topic.
Could the presence of this noise potentially cause damage to high-quality speakers or headphones, especially if they are not designed to handle such frequencies? I appreciate the work being done here, and Iām asking out of genuine curiosity, as I am not very knowledgeable about this topic.
Quote from Drybonz on November 4, 2024, 11:08 pmQuote from Aureoli on November 4, 2024, 2:27 pmCould the presence of this noise potentially cause damage to high-quality speakers or headphones
The frequencies you are worried about are the ultra high range (I think people that are into DSDs worry about this, but I'm not an expert on any of this).Ā It's in a much higher range than 14-19, and you don't have to worry about this.Ā If you saw a graph, similar to the one above, that showed this potentially harmful range, it would look much different (these graphs exist if you want to hunt them out).
Quote from Aureoli on November 4, 2024, 2:27 pmCould the presence of this noise potentially cause damage to high-quality speakers or headphones
The frequencies you are worried about are the ultra high range (I think people that are into DSDs worry about this, but I'm not an expert on any of this).Ā It's in a much higher range than 14-19, and you don't have to worry about this.Ā If you saw a graph, similar to the one above, that showed this potentially harmful range, it would look much different (these graphs exist if you want to hunt them out).
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